"I think about Seattle often and the friends I made there. Is the grass just greener...?"

to a certain degree i guess this is always true. visiting a city that's not my own has always held a visceral appeal for me, anyway.

however, according to the stranger's inside scoop, you're not actually missing much up here. last week's in/visible—a stranger podcast hosted by art critic jen graves—was advertised as "This Week: Anne Mathern and Chad Wentzel on How Seattle Doesn't Have an Art Scene." link here:

http://www.thestranger.com/podcasts/invisible

although i found it excruciating to get through listening to the whole thing (it'll rob you of about a half hour of your life with rampant superlatives as well as question mark comparisons to the new york scene), i did cull some interesting material from it...

for example, here are a couple of reasons—according to the duo—that we don't have a visual arts scene in seattle...

CHAD
[in the seattle art community] if you want to get to know the bigshot you just go up and talk to 'em.

ANNE
you need young people who are stars [and apparently we don't have any].

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does anybody else find these reasons/criteria odd?

by 'young people' do we mean people in their early to mid twenties? i guess that would wipe out a lot of personas with 'star-quality' currently on the seattle scene...suttonberesculler...greg lundgren...alice wheeler...scott lawrimore...whiting tennis...regina hackett...and so on...

and god help them if they don't mind striking up conversations with people they don't know...

but all that gibberish aside, i think the most telling part of the interview comes right about in the middle of the podcast...

JEN
do you guys feel committed to seattle or not?

ANNE
ummmmmmm...

CHAD
yes or no...i meannnnnnno...

JEN
no, that means no, then!!

ANNE & CHAD
no, i'm not committed, i'm not committed, i'm not committed...!!

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geesh. i just despise hearing these 'we don't have a scene' gripes over the years from people who don't even want to be here. i heard this same old song in my brief stint in brooklyn, for cr*ssakes. imho, if you can't find [insert whatever you're looking for] where you're at, make your own or get out!!

i guess i take a pretty hard line with griping no matter what form it takes...but man, bottom line time. if you're not living the life you want to live where you want to live it that's nobody's fault but yours.

there's no scene in the world that can save somebody from hating where they are at (or, worse, being apathetic towards it) while at the same time not having the courage to go where they want to be.

but maybe i'm just feeling testy ::grin::

namaste anyway,

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imho, if you can't find [insert whatever you're looking for] where you're at, make your own or get out!!

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if you're not living the life you want to live where you want to live it that's nobody's fault but yours

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Agreed, but it's much easier said than done. Not everyone can just pack up and leave simply because they are not finding what they want in the local art scene. Lack of money, family obligations, etc.. I love this area, but the area doesn't seem to be particularly interested in my art.. so I either have to move (which I don't want to do and my wife refuses to do), or do what I'm currently working towards, which is picking up a gallery on the east coast.. or in my case it looks like I might get a show in Dallas.

While it is ultimately your fault if you are not satisfied with what is going on around you, it would be worth considering that an art scene not addressing the needs of a large number of it's artists, might want to do some self examination if it is driving alot of local talent to move or show elsewhere.

sorry.. I do need to ***** and moan a little bit. I am after all the hardest working man in show bussiness.

allow me to counterpoint with a quote from my good friend korey gulbrandson, a full-time painter in portland who has sacrificed much for his career, "there are two speeds. you're either doing it, or not doing it."

i find that just about everything worth doing is easier said than done, but i personally try to use that (and admire others who do) more as a challenge than an excuse.

people are bound to disagree that it's the thought that counts or somesuch. that's what makes the world (and blogs) go 'round i 'spose :>

peaches,

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"there are two speeds. you're either doing it, or not doing it."

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here's a quote I love..
Samuel Rothbort

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Folk art is great and poor art is better than no art at all. Paint, carve, draw. Pencils are cheap. Wood and stone are plentiful on every step.

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Actually, Mathern and Wentzel's comments about this city struck me more as demystifying than dismissive. Because they have been more-or-less canonized by the local art establishment and the interview sets them up as poster children for some possible local scene, they wisely chose to speak with modesty about the subject. Taken out of context, their words might strike some as denigrating, but I didn't get that. They are debunking the myth of "Scene," not trashing Seattle's diverse community of art people. The two of them seem like perfectly charming people who would make great dinner companions and I would have much preferred to hear them talk about their own work than the current, problematic show at the Henry.

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Jim Demetre

Doesn't matter too much to me because I must be out of my brain and am doing my own thing and will till the day I die, but I sure feel alone in the Seattle art scene.. assuming there is a scene and I am in it.

The problem arises when these actions are treated by critics or other observers as some grand gesture or statement on art or the community. In such cases these guys usually end up looking like self-conscious jackasses, which they most certainly are not. A person should be able to have a good time in public with their friends without having their activities scrutinized as a some sort of commentary on Seattle or its scene.

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Jim Demetre

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think it's great that Scott Lawrimore and Greg Lundgren can have some clever fun with their friends and associates, don't you?
The problem arises when these actions are treated by critics or other observers as some grand gesture or statement on art or the community. In such cases these guys usually end up looking like self-conscious jackasses, which they most certainly are not.

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Can we get out of the joke? get out of the concept of the concept? and actually make something worth defining as a "movement" or "scene"?

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nse, i feel your pain here. personally i think there IS a new movement just barely visible on the horizon. i am patiently waiting to be inspired enough by it to make art about it and maybe even throw some verbalization its way. some few other artists i've talked to lately also feel this 'somethingness' around the edges...

on the other hand, speaking of the fabulous greg lundgren and his partners in conceptual crime, i'm also a staunch supporter of what may be one of the longest running jokes on the contemporary seattle art scene, vital 5's "artists for a work free america." you can find out more about afwfa here.

happy lounging,

So I did some more thinking about all this, and posted just now on Slog.

I've tried to clarify my positions on some of these things in response to your writings, but one thing I haven't done is argue properly with Jim's characterization that I set up Anne Mathern and Chad Wentzel as the poster children for the scene, and that their response was some sort of false modesty as a result of their being involved in the scene.

That's not the impression I got at all, being in the room with them. They actually seemed to find Seattle fairly lame. Hey, at least they were honest about it. I hear that sentiment at least once a week from somebody, about as often as I hear that Seattle is doing well. It depends on what you want from a scene. Mathern and Wentzel were referring to something more glamorous, and more exclusive. Non-Specific Entity, you want a movement.

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They actually seemed to find Seattle fairly lame. Hey, at least they were honest about it. I hear that sentiment at least once a week from somebody, about as often as I hear that Seattle is doing well. It depends on what you want from a scene.

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In this thread I'm reminded of some earlier ones on Artdish that touched on what kind of an art "scene" there is in Seattle. Its a theme that bubbles up over and again.

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Taken out of context, their words might strike some as denigrating, but I didn't get that. They are debunking the myth of "Scene," not trashing Seattle's diverse community of art people.

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A while back, memorably, Jim Demetre said (I'll paraphrase...edit as called for) that unlike in earlier periods-for example "the northwest school..." that nowadays there was no recognizable theme to all the different kinds of art being made and shown here. I think this observation is central to Jen Graves' note quoted above.

People who make art usually spend time looking at the work of other artists. So do critics and curators. Where do these participants in the creative core of a place converge?

Conversation around art enlivens the mind and enriches creative production that mostly takes place in the silences of studios. The most passionate and interesting perspectives- and often these views are diverse- need places for collective simmering, toward becoming a luscious and lively soup.

Specific to Seattle, as opposed to the larger region of which it is part, the kinds of salon events ocasionally hosted at Francine Seders would be exemplary...and it sounds like some good conversations happen at the Hideout. And elsewhere...

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Jim Demetre